How are we Saved? - Samuel Green vs Shabir Ally

Published: 25 Aug 2016  ·  Uploaded: 20 Dec 2016 Watch on Youtube.com
2878 views  ·  58 mins ago 2:05:34

TAGS SAMUEL GREEN   6 SHABIR ALLY   147
Video Description (from Youtube)
It was a pleasure to meet with Shabir again. Here are a few comments I ask you to consider after watching the debate:
1. Shabir displayed the cover of, "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" translated by Martin Abegg et al, and claimed that it showed that some versions of Isaiah 53 do not have the servant die (21:44, 1:56:20). I asked for a reference to this claim during the debate (1:09:00) but none was given. I have this book and have now checked, and it does not make this claim. In this book the authors publish the text of the Dead Sea Scrolls (DSS) Old Testaments books. They list any variants within the DDS and also compare to the LXX and Masoretic Texts. So do any of the Isaiah DSS say that the servant does not die? The answer is no. What follows are the verses from Isaiah 53 (pages 359-360) which indicate the death, or otherwise, of the servant:

53:7 ... like a lamb that is led to the slaughter ... (DSS, LXX, MT, all agree about death.)
53:8 ... For he was cut off from the land of the living ... (DSS, LXX, MT, all agree about death.)
53:9 Then they made his grave with the wicked, and with rich people (his tomb, DSS)/(in his deaths, MT)/(in his death, LXX).
53:12 ... because he poured out his life to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sins of many, and made intercession for the their transgressions. (DSS, LXX, MT, all agree about death.)

The only variant about his death is whether the reading is “tomb” or “death” in 53:9. But as the death of the servant is also stated in verses 7, 8, and 12, and all sources agree, then it is impossible to conclude that the reference to “tomb” in DSS 53:9 is a denial of death because the death of the servant is stated elsewhere in verses 7, 8, and 12. For Shabir’s argument to work all of these other references to death would also need variants which offer an alternative to the death of the servant, but they do not. I am happy to be corrected but I cannot see any evidence from this book for the suggestion that in some Isaiah scrolls the servant does not die. Please read Isaiah 53 and make up your own mind.

2. He said there was no Old Testament prophecy about a specific individual called the Messiah to come (22:50). Again this is wrong. The Messiah is the son of David (2 Samuel 7:13-16, Psalm 2) and we are specifically told of a coming son (Isaiah 9:6ff et al) who will bring God's kingdom. This is basic teaching about the Messiah.

I will not go through every point. My hope is that debates such as these will help Christians and Muslims understand each other's books and religions better. My concern is that Shabir presents his material with convincing confidence yet when I check these references they do not say what he claims. I hope that those of you who want to learn by watching these debates will check all of the references given by both speakers.


Shared on: 20 Dec 2016

DISCLAIMER All videos are for educational purposes only. The video is hosted on Youtube. The Video Title is derived from the original Youtube video title, video content, dialogue, speech or general content theme. The Video Title does not represent the views of any individual, speaker, organisation or business. Video Titles are further edited and optimized for SEO, keyword density, information and internal/external search. If you spot any mistake, omission or to report abuse kindly contact us.



6   Videos with 'Samuel green'
Video: 1:40:17
3026 views · 19 hrs ago | 7 years ago
1 of 6   
Video: 2:05:34
2879 views · 0 secs ago | 7 years ago
2 of 6   
Video: 2:12:31
5363 views · 1 hr ago | 7 years ago
3 of 6   
Video: 2:05:34
2475 views · 9 hrs ago | 6 years ago
4 of 6   
Video: 1:45:54
2412 views · 23 mins ago | 5 years ago
5 of 6   
Video: 2:00:57
2436 views · 3 hrs ago | 4 years ago
6 of 6   


Latest videos  •  5,958 videos  •  0 viewed/24 hour

SCRIPTURE

Torah 5   BOOKS
Psalms 1   BOOK
Old Testament 32   BOOKS
New Testament 27   BOOKS
Apocrypha 1885 14   BOOKS
Gospels/Texts 367   BOOKS
Codex 120   BOOKS
Quran 1   BOOK
Hadith 10   BOOKS
SCRIPTURES   580

NEWS

0 viewed · 24 hour
  COVID-19 Testing & Tracing Action Plan - Rockefeller Foundation
6702 views · 1 hr ago · 01 Jul
Saudi Food Wholesaler profits hit $24M on higher food demand in [...] - Arab News
4127 views · 2 hrs ago · 11 May
Saudi Arabia approves Moderna COVID Vaccine for children aged 6 years [...] - The National
5260 views · 1 hr ago · 25 Apr
Covid Crisis: Australians returning from India may be jailed for 5 [...] - The Guardian
5448 views · 22 mins ago · 01 May
Upto 5-years jail for anyone who transmits COVID in public in Saudi [...] - Arab News
5321 views · 28 secs ago · 25 Apr
Coronavirus: Abu Dhabi police urge reports of illegal Ramadhan [...] - The National
4773 views · 59 mins ago · 25 Apr
NEWS   1,564
About Us  |  Help/FAQ  |  Contact Us    •    Terms  |  Privacy/Disclaimer
Be Informed on Social :      Facebook Page  |    Twitter  |    Youtube
MuslimProphets.com is an educational website on the Prophets of God: Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, who established the Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. MuslimProphets.com explores contemporary social themes through Scripture, Evidences, Photo, Video, Maps, Current Affairs, Debate and 'alternative' Views held by Theologians, Apologists, Scholars and Street Preachers. Take a Site Tour

In accordance with Islamic etiquette, all prophet names should be followed with 'Peace Be Upon Him (PBUH)'. This is omitted to minimise text.

DISCLAIMER: All website content is for general information and educational purposes only and available in the public domain. Whilst all information comes from sources believed to be reliable, this cannot be guaranteed. External links are provided as a convenience and for informational purposes only. They do not constitute endorsement or approval for any products, services or comments by organizations or individuals. External links text may be edited to improve internal site and keyword search options. We bear no responsibility for the accuracy, legality, or content found on any external website or its subsequent links. Unless indicated, all images and content is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution License distributed by Wikipedia, Wikimedia Commons, Pixabay, Pxhere, Pexels, Unsplash or Flickr. All Torah, Psalms, Old and New Testament Bible quotes are from the King James Version (KJV) Holy Bible in the public domain. All Quran quotes are from Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali/Muhsin Khan English Quran translation. You are invited to always conduct your own research. If you spot any mistake, error or omission of information, contact us so we can correct it.
Clustrmaps